*Updated* C'Thun Ramp (Anti-Meta)
- Last updated May 4, 2016 (Old Gods)
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Wild
- 18 Minions
- 12 Spells
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Ramp Druid
- Crafting Cost: 8180
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 4/21/2016 (Explorers)
- seksireturns
- Registered User
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- 7
- 13
- 22
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Battle Tag:
Seksi#1158
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Region:
US
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Total Deck Rating
578
5/3/16 UPDATE: The deck has gone through major revisions.
-Mire Keeper x2, -The Black Knight, -Emperor Thaurissan
+Disciple of C'Thun, +Mind Control Tech, +Fandral Staghelm, +Slyvanas Windrunner
RECENT CHANGES:
First off, I wanted to determine the best removal setup between BGH, TBK, and Mulch. I tried running two of the three simultaneously and each one on their own. A single removal in Mulch filled the role as the most flexible choice. While BGH and TBK are very good when utilized, they were often dead cards. Mulch provides a way to deal with any threat including one that comes earlier which makes the card useful against Control and Aggro.
Next, I ended up taking out Mire Keepers completely. I explained more below, but I believe the deck to be significantly better since this change. With two four drops gone, I now had room to tailor the deck to better combat the decks we have a hard time with; namely Warlock Zoo and Aggro Shaman.
Mind Control Tech was added and almost always gets value, I love this tech card. Even against Control decks you will find value at times late game. Next, a Disciple of C'Thun was added (in addition to the 2x Twilight Elders). This change provides an additional C'Thun booster, a reliable early game drop against Aggro, and a decent pick up any time to combo with your damaging spells.
Now that the deck is improved against Aggro, I wanted to get the most value out of the higher costing cards. Emperor Thaurissan was cut and Sylvanas Windrunner took its spot. Emperor is great, but his value isn't as great as Sylvanas, especially against Control. She gets amazing value against Control decks and even more so now that silences are rare. With this change, we have a big number of late game threats to deal with.
Lastly, Fandral is back! With two four drops out, I needed one more four drop. A general rule of thumb for Druid is to always have at least three 4-mana creatures to effectively utilize a turn 2 Wild Growth. This slot could be a Senjin Shieldmasta, or even a Klaxxi Amber-Weaver if you must, but I like Fandral here. He acts as a pseudo-taunt, players will scramble or spend removal on him. If he does get value, its great. Wild Growth, Living Roots, Nourish, Druid of the Claw, Ancient of War. Plenty of value here, though it's not essential to the deck at all. He adds another element of strategy to a well rounded deck.
I hope you enjoy the changes, let me know how the deck serves you! I am constantly trying to come up with the best possible Ramp Druid. I really like this list, if you have any questions, please ask, and as always I appreciate the comments and ideas.
MULLIGAN:
The Mulligan for Druid is one of the most important by class. You want to hard mulligan for Wild Growth and Innervate. Never keep Wrath unless you already have a great hand (Innervate + Twilight Elder, for example). If you keep a Wrath, you will often be playing from behind even if you remove an early threat. I will almost always keep a Twilight Elder. If you do get a Wild Growth, you can keep a 4-drop, or a 5-drop with Coin. Living Roots is another good card to keep in most situations. A turn 1 Living Roots is strong, keeping Living Roots when you have the coin may or may not be a good choice depending on your opponent and the rest of your hand.
This deck mulligans pretty well because you have 8 cards to look for in Wild Growth, Innervate, Twilight Elder and Living Roots. Try to ramp efficiently; if you have two innervates, rarely should you use both in one turn, spread them out for two efficient turns. Never coin out a Wild Growth on turn 1 unless you have a 3-drop to play the following turn. If you don't, save your coin and simply play Wild Growth on turn 2.
EXCLUDED CARDS:
Mire Keeper: The most recent cut to this list. At first glance this card seemed awesome, but I have found it has underperformed. The ability to ramp from 4 mana into 6 is cool, but hardly needed. It's the initial ramp from Wild Growth that is most beneficial. His other option to play a 3/3 and 2/2 for 4 mana is pretty good, but also didn't have much impact. It is a bad card against Aggro, and not a great card against Control either. In addition, it was basically a dead card to draw late. Cutting the Mire Keepers have led to a deck transformation and improvement.
Emperor Thaurissan: One of the best cards in the game ended up getting the axe. With the removal of Mire Keepers, the 6-mana slot is no longer as needed. Thaurissan was useful, but generally didn't have as much impact compared to Sylvanas or Dark Arrakoa. The subtraction of Thaurissan led to the addition of Sylvanas which greatly improves our matchups against Control.
The Black Knight: TBK was useful sometimes, but still too situational. Big Game Hunter suffered the same fate. After testing, Mulch was ultimately the best card to deal with threats because it can be used against any creature. You can cheaply remove anything with Mulch, plus it can be used earlier as a tempo play against a pesky minion you couldn't otherwise deal with.
Big Game Hunter: After testing, BGH is not worth the slot anymore. The meta doesn't have many targets now that Dr. Boom and Molten Giant are gone. While he is effective against an opposing C'Thun, Mulch looks to be the better and more flexible removal.
Beckoner of Evil: This is a C'Thun deck, you don't run Beckoner of Evil!? Right. I believe this is a common mistake that players will make. You shouldn't ever run a two drop minion in Druid because Wild Growth is always the superior turn 2 play. In addition, Dark Arrakoa provides +3/+3 to make up for the +2/+2 a Beckoner of Evil would provide.
Darnassus Aspirant: This card seemed great on paper but it turned out to be overrated. The reason behind this is that Druid should never run a 2-drop. Wild Growth is always the best turn 2 play. If you do play a Aspirant on turn two and it is killed, you are left with an awkward turn 3 play.
Keeper of the Grove: This card was so good. I understand why it got a nerf, though couldn't be a 2/3 instead? It's stats are poor now, as a silence its strictly worse then a Spellbreaker or Owl. You can choose to deal 2 damage against a Knife Juggler or Sorcerer's Apprentice for example, but then you are left with a measly body for 4 mana. At first, I cut one. After Fandral was announced, I cut the second. If silence becomes a must, he will find his way back into the deck as a one-of, but I don't think this deck will require it.
Klaxxi Amber-Weaver: At first glance, this card seems cool. A potential 4/10 for 4 mana! However, it does not give any boosting stats to C'Thun. Since we don't run Beckoner of Evil, we can't afford to play a minion that relies on C'Thun having 10+ stats so early. You wouldn't love to play this creature on curve for that reason. In addition, the 4/10 stats don't do much on the board since they do not have taunt, spell damage, or boosting ability. A 4/10 won't have immediate impact against an aggro deck or control.
Forbidden Ancient: This card is pretty cool, it could help fill a turn that you don't have a better play. However, I would rather include cards that always have a high impact and don't depend on a poor turn's situation. That being said, it is worth testing some more.
FINAL THOUGHTS:
Out value your opponent by cheating your mana turns and playing efficient cards. Apply pressure whenever possible by attacking their face and let them trade into your taunts. Don't rely on C'Thun as an ultimate finisher, but rather an additional big threat to go long with Ragnaros the Firelord and your other 6 and 7 drops.
Shissan,
Thanks for making a video! I haven't seen it yet (at work), but I will check it out. I too like The Black Knight, though I am trying Mulch instead at the moment.
Cool man thanks for taking the time to watch it later today. Also, I have a new video (on the channel) with your latest update with TBK. It came in handy during that match indeed.
As for Mulch, instead of The Black Knight, it might be good but I hear bad stories about Mulch giving very nice cards to your opponent haha
Let us know how it works for you on the Ladder :)
I think Thaurissan is a key card in this deck, but it is worth testing without him. I am also trying versions that run an additional 3-drop, or also versions with 2x Disciples instead of Elders. I don't think cutting C'Thun Chosen is good though. I will post my update soon. Thanks for the comment!
This deck is great against mid range and about half the aggro decks out there for me so far. I haven't crafted twin emp yet... Probably will shortly. I swapped in a second ancient of war. Aggro murloc warlock killed me w perfect ramp and taunts turn 7 and aggro shaman turn 9 so I dropped an innervate and living roots for a raven idol and spellbreaker and this has helped for removal/silence against aggro combo decks.
Innervate is one of our best cards. I would keep it! You can cut a Living Roots for a Raven Idol if you'd like. Thanks for your report.
Emperor Thaurissan is epic! He is especially great in this deck because you can 'cheat' him out with Wild Growth and/or Innervate. If you can play him before turn 6, your entire hand is discounted. Generally speaking, your hand will be filled with higher costing cards. Plus, you can play him and he acts as a taunt minion, players will almost always use a removal spell or trade their minions to prevent another discounted turn. Good thing is, you already got value!
I get what people are saying. When you cheat him out to play him early you have already dumped two cards from your hand and you are left only discounting 2-3 cards.
Had mixed success so far, its great for opponents who want to play board, but with no healing i'm getting utterly steam rolled by spell decks. Mages/Hunters namely. If you don't get WG or Inervate as well feels really slow and you just flat lose against them as by the time you have enough mana to play your already at 15hp so they just carry on to face with spells. Maybe i'm just unlucky i dunno....feels like the draw is way to slow if you get a bad starting hand.
Mages and Hunters have always been counters to Druid. I think we can do well against them. I am testing new changes to help these match ups though. Check back! Thanks for your comment.
Well, when you play against those classes you always want to mil your opening hand for mana ramp cards. Save wrath for mage in case they drop their mana wyrm since that is usually a lot of their win conditions. Mage decks have been running slow lately and are spell heavy so they will use spells to dump your heavier minions but that is fine. Buys you time to build your win condition which is C'Thun.
My win rate against mage is roughly 67% which is fair better than most players so be efficient with how you are using your cards.
Great to hear. This deck is really powerful, I hardly had a loss until I went into the lower ranks (7 and below).
Hey everyone,
Great to hear how well the deck is performing for you! Thanks for your comments. I will reply to them when I have time later today or tonight.
I don't have mulch and I didn't feel like crafting BGH again so I just substituted a naturalize.
Killing it! Keep it up. Stay tuned for the latest changes and comments.
I'm not sold on this card, but I haven't played it yet.
That card is only used to trade into minions and when you run double swipe I don't see room for it. Also by turn three you should have either Innervate or have used a [/card]Wild Growth[/card] already so you have other cards to be playing by that turn.
The only thing Feral Rage will do for you is trade into a minion and now you didn't do anything towards your board so they will just have another turn to build one and then you are back to before. Dealing with his board when you want them to deal with yours.
hello seksire, i like the deck and its gameplan but in my opinion Ancient of War is a little bit irrelevant to this deck structure so i changed it with crazed worshipper. i ll try and let you know.
Ancient of War is too good. Let me know!
This deck is scary fun. I hate to be that guy but I hope no one finds out about this deck. It's too good and druid is still in the run.
Haha well, usually I have the same way of thinking. When I create a deck, I want to hold the competitive edge. But I see it differently now. I'm happy you are having so much fun, I would like to continue to momentum its gaining and hopefully grab the front page. I am a former pro WC3 player... I will set up my stream for Hearthstone and be interactive with the community!