[R12-Legend] Couriering Renolock
- Last updated Jan 23, 2017 (Gadgetzan)
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Wild
- 22 Minions
- 8 Spells
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Renolock
- Crafting Cost: 10940
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 1/20/2017 (Gadgetzan)
- TachiiDerp
- Registered User
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- 6
- 17
- 48
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Battle Tag:
Tachii#1678
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Region:
US
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Total Deck Rating
56
First decided to pilot this deck from R12 to R4, and now I've completed the whole tour of Legend, with a 68% W/R.
In my experience as you see here ladder is pretty much half and half, mixed with aggro and mixed with control, with a few druids and rogues in between.
I feel like Renolock is undoubtedly the strongest Reno variant in the game, as it just has so many different win conditions and flexibility against every matchup.
Tech Choices:
The only difference you see in this deck is Kabal Courier which is typically only seen in Renomage and Renopriest. However Renolock benefits the most from this card because we're much more likely to draw Brann + Courier early on to use it. I've gotten a lot of highlighted games from this card, as the value you get from it is absolutely insane in a warlock. More chances to give me kazakus? More couriers? Board clears? hard removal? more battlecry synergy with Brann? Sign me up!
This card makes the deck incredibly more versatile, perhaps the most versatile. It has very little low quality cards such as Soulfire, Sunfury Protector, Dark Peddler, and is as greedy as it comes. As you can see I still managed a positive win-rate against aggro, and this is mostly from experience and a healthy mental attitude.
Spellbreaker. This card is good in almost every matchup except Pirate Warriors. It shines best in control mirrors. You slam this down on Twilight Drake, Sylvanas, Brann, Doomsayer, Shambler, and you're good to go. You can also silence your own rag if need be. Against Aggro Shaman it isn't the worst card either, it comes out sooner than Sylvanas (which was what it replaced), and it can do work on Flametongue, Thalnos, Aya. etc.
Against aggro:
Look at it this way, does Renolock really need to tech against Aggro? It shouldn't, it should be a class that has a reasonable chance against every deck and simply need to have an even matchup against aggro to climb. I tried experimenting with Sunfury Protector and Dark Peddler, and these cards are just pretty low value and impact cards, like maybe it will increase your matchup against aggro by a few %, but the outcome usually comes down to whether or not you have Doomsayer, Kazakus, Reno, and/or early board clears.
Aggro matchups end in like 3-5 minutes, either you outheal them, or you die in 5 turns. Psychologically, this shouldn't affect you, since it's basically 100% based on card draw order. Has nothing to do with you, your opponent, and even your deck. You could tech in more anti-aggro cards, but increasing your % against aggro will decrease your % against control a lot more, and you really want to win against control since those are the matchups that can get you down since it takes like 10+ minutes to finish.
Now, I happen to squeeze out positive win rates against every class, and this is most likely due to the lower ladder experience. It's not that I saw misplays, but a lot of people probably doesn't understand their win condition clearly with the deck they're using, so they might mulligan incorrectly.
MATCHUPS (TL;DR):
1. Warrior/Shaman: mulligan hard for Reno, Doomsayer, Mixtures, Kazakus, Ooze, Farseer. Hellfire and demonwrath isn't bad, but isn't game changing like Reno and Kazakus. Hellfire is really good against shaman if they didn't play Totem Golem, and Demonwrath is good against Pirate Warriors if they only played 1 drop pirates. You almost want to throw your minions out there even if it's not their optimal turn to come out. Soaking damage is very important early for you to last long enough to draw Kazakus/Reno/Board clears.
2. Druid: You're facing either ramp or jade druid, jade druid will be the most common. Renolock is apparently unfavoured, but you simply need to change your gameplan. You're the aggressor in this matchup. I once played an Ooze on turn 2 and chucked in 9 damage from it to eventually pressure him to death. Keeping Drake, Mountain Giant, Farseer, Imp Gang, for early game pressure. Mixtures and heals in general are pretty irrelevant here. Kazakus into giving health to all your minions will win you games. Shambler will win games. All your heavy minions are win conditions. Basically you care most about heavy board pressure. Brann is used best with Courier or Dirty Rat, since Druid has many cards that sucks ass if pulled out from their hand. Only use them if you have answers though (obviously).
3. Reno matchups: All you care about is value and getting Mountain Giant/Twilight Drake out on turn 4. Save Brann for dirty rat, kazakus, courier, hell even argus isn't bad. I find many reno opponents don't even carry enough large removal, so tons of times they don't have an answer for turn 4 drake/giant, and you simply win the game from that point since it will trade for at least 2 of their cards. Only cards you want in mulligan is Mountain Giant, Drake, Emperor, and maybe Kazakus. I'd keep kazakus if you have the other 3 cards, if not it's not even that important this early. Basically never extend above 4 minions UNLESS you have answers in your hand to control a MCT swing. The +health on minions in this matchup is really good, as well as reviving minions. Doomsayer, Mixture, and most heals are irrelevant in this matchup. Armor is super good for Kazakus if you're playing Jaraxxus soon.
4. Rogues: Miracle rogue is kind of like facing aggro matchups but close to facing Druids as well. You actually want to be the aggressor here as well, but you also want to clear up their early game pirates. Demonwrath is pretty good, Twilight Drake/Mountain Giant are still pretty good. MCT/ooze/farseer/heals should just come out for tempo and pressuring the rogue. Make them waste their saps early and then slam down taunts to win the game. Also if they don't have Auctioneer by turn 6-7 or a lucky Edwin they pretty much lost anyway unless you also drew horribly. Dirty Rat on turn 5 is pretty disgusting if you have an answer for their 4/4s.
5. Dragon Priests: Their only win condition is early pressure + lucky Draknoid Operatives. Doomsayer is relevant here, as well as Imp Gang, Farseer, Shadow Bolt. However you're generally just going to outvalue them at some point. Twilight drake on 4 is insanely hard for them to deal with, and even Mountain Giant since they usually don't keep death. No need to save Kazakus for Brann, as you usually want a 5 mana spell to deny Draknoid Operatives from pressuring you. If you get to late game you should just outvalue them. Some disgusting plays involve Brann + Dirty Rat + MCT, or Brann + Courier, or Brann with Argus even (argus on Brann + 2 atk minion is nasty for them to deal with). A lot of flexibility with Kazakus, I generally find +health, reviving dead minions, damage, board clears to be the best here.
Long story short, this deck is extremely versatile, but it isn't a simple deck to play (as I'm sure most people have heard this). I love the flexibility of the deck, and I generally don't feel too bad about losing to aggro since the game finishes in 3-5 minutes. The most satisfying wins comes from reno mirrors, and this deck has all the tools to outvalue mirror matchups.
As I've said, Mountain Giant into Shambler comes out before Alex. But yeah, to each their own I guess. I'm honestly not sure why you're suggesting pressuring the board at turn 4 is a bad thing. It also seems with your logic, there's no point having Twilight Drake either, right? The same counters work for Twilight Drake except for Death. With your tone though I guess it's too late at this point to have a reasonable discussion.
What about sylvanas+shadowflame ?
Too slow and situational to be of use. You need your opponent to have at least a big minion (with at least 7 health) and at least 2 other minions to make the best use out of these cards. In aggro matchups sylvanas is a dead card every game. In control matchups you basically just win with Jaraxxus and Kazakus.
In aggro matchups Shadowflame + Spellbreaker allows you to board clear on turn 8 if you have to. In control matchups shadowflame is typically used on dread infernals.
So, my take on this list would be
- Mountain Giant + Alexstrasza because Mountain Giant gets removed right away in the mirror, and its worthless vs aggro. I would rather an the same body late in the game when it matters with a meaningful effect. Alexing your opponent's reno and laugh to victory. Its also a worthy self heal and equal body to mountain giant.
- Mind Control Tech + Sunfury Protector another anti aggro card that doesnt really do much for you. Sunfury protector is best deployed late game vs midrange decks and control to manipulate the board and win the late game race by forcing unoptimal trades for your oppenent.
Also maybe even remove shambler for sylv
You absolutely cannot remove Mountain Giant, as it's a win condition. Control mirrors do not have enough removal, and you'd be surprised how many times it doesn't get removed. In renolock mirrors only blastcrystal can remove it on 5, and that means they're a mana behind for the next 5 turns which means you're at a tempo lead. Whoever holds board tempo wins the game in control mirrors.
I do agree MCT isn't very impactful, but I'm not seeing too much impact with Sunfury Protector either. The only best time to use this is when you're Jaraxxus and taunting up against a rare Control Warrior to prevent lethal. Otherwise "midrange" decks are like 5% of all ladder (or are you considering Dragon Priest? For which this deck is already hugely favoured to win anyway. Plus MCT getting great value against them too), and in control matchups Sunfury doesn't really provide any value. Yeah you give a minion or two taunt, but it's also an irrelevant 2/3 body, allows your opponent to use MCT on you, and it might get awkward real fast.
Alex is also a win condition, but its a win condition that matters when it really counts at the end of the game. Alexing your opponent after they reno yields a much higher winrate then landing a T4 mountain giant that WILL get removed and the damage it did WILL get healed. You also have to think about reno priest and reno mage, not just reno lock. There are many, many answers to mountain giant.
Alex is also better vs aggro due to its ability to either A) give you a surprise win or B) give you a follow up heal to your reno that they just bull dozed right through.
I think that mountain giant is a great example of availability cascade. Its popularly believed to be great in the deck and is therefore not challenged.
> Alex is good for aggro.
That's a bold statement to make considering you have to survive til turn 9 against aggro to be able to use it. And if renolock can survive to turn 9, it's highly unlikely Alex will have no impact on the game at all after that point (with enough games under my belt, I don't think this is a biased statement). An earlier mountain giant + shambler offers way more flexibility.
> Alex is a win condition in reno matchups.
Not true, because reno jackson's heal effect in a control reno matchup is generally irrelevant since the HP doesn't matter when you have Jaraxxus (it's the only consistent card that pushes Reno matchups to even use Reno). Reno priest only has one answer on turn 4, Death. Reno mage has one answer on turn 4, Polymorph. How many games have you played where this was removed immediately? It's definitely not 100%, and getting it removed isn't even a bad thing, as you still have initiative on board, and tons more threats in store. If it isn't removed, taking 8 damage a turn is really not that easy to heal as you think it is. I'm wondering if you've played the deck enough to comment on this, because after 100 games, Mountain Giant is an insanely consistent card in control matchups.
Meanwhile, Alex is a *highly* situational games that's irrelevant for most of the game, and considering you're removing Mountain Giant, you have even less threats early on to pressure Reno mirrors to use Reno. Meaning this card is effectively only used in the final moments of the game... where Jaraxxus already have the game-winning impact. Mountain Giant isn't simply here just because it's seen in every deck, it's here because the effects of this card is significant.
I was running a Renolock with anti-aggro tech cards (like soulfire, void walker) and did fairly well against them but I noticed in that in control matches and mirror matches, I would be out valued.
I saw this decklist with spellbreaker and decided to give it a shot. I've now been on a 8 win streak. So far, I've come across a couple of dragon priests, one renolock, a pirate warrior and the rest shaman and managed to win all of them. Spellbreaker saved the game for me in the mirror match. Thanks to brann + courier, I won against the dragon priests. I have to thank your advise on playing against aggro even though I haven't lost yet to aggro on this deck but have plenty of times on other renodecks. You have to mentality accept that if you don't have Reno by turn 6 or 7, you're most likely going to lose the game. That's just how it is. You can't be mad or blame the deck. But I will say the last shaman matchup, I won and didn't use reno at all. In fact, I even misplayed (I forgot how to count apparently) and still managed to survived. Your advice about just laying down minions to soak up damage is great.
This is a good deck. Thanks.
Nice! I had a 11-win streak from R6 to R4, facing 5 Renolock mirrors in this span and won against all of them.
I didn't tech in Spellbreaker til Rank 2, that's when I noticed Sylvanas was the only card that wasn't getting too much value of. However when I laid down Spellbreaker it's usually doing something.
I actually can't find the advice about laying down minions on my own guide so I'll have to include that somewhere, and it's absolutely true. I once played Brann on 3 against aggro shaman. Soaking down 4 damage is sometime just enough for you to topdeck Reno and more heals.
Really cool list, but I have trouble seeing this as "greedy". In my opinion, Soulfire is an extremely greedy card, trading off cheap removal for a card that is undoubtly higher value than it anyway. You also don't run combo, which I believe is also a greedy choice. Combo has not won me any more games than simply being able to remove repetitive damage and last until I can Reno or Lord J. I think a list like this is perfect for ladder. Mind Control Tech and Imp Gang Boss are some that I've excluded from my list, which I've replaced with Felfire Potion and Power Overwhelming. Any options on these two? Felfire can kill concealed Auctioneer and most boards that Dragon Priest will produce, and PO is good with Shambler or Shadowflame.
Soulfire is a tempo card, not a value card. You trade in two cards for one, since you very likely discard a card you need. In control matchups this card is completely anti-value, for if you lose any of your valuable cards, you lose the game. Card advantage in control mirrors are the #1 important factor to decide who wins and loses.
As for Imp Gang Boss, I feel like its a must have because it's decently good against aggro. Felfire doesn't seem too relevant since this deck has so many board clears, plus it's another late game card and it tips a bit too much in how much early game cards you can play. PO on the other hand seems way too niche to get value. Shadowflame and Shambler is already situational cards, to add in more situational cards would lower the deck's consistency. It certainly doesn't help against aggro, and you end up taking out a card. I think you can argue to take out MCT though, since everyone plays around it, and it's also a very situational card with value coming from Dirty Rat most of the time.
If you're playing those, tell me how it goes!
(I've also changed the name of this deck, as you're right, it really isn't that greedy, it's just a standard Renolock, I decided to change it to Couriering Renolock since I rarely ever see this card in Renolock).